MBW’s partnership with the Did Ya Know? podcast continues with Adrian Sykes interviewing Marc Williams, a musical pioneer in his personal proper, who went on to find Labrinth and located OddChild Music…
Rising up on North London’s Caledonian Street within the Seventies, Marc Williams spent plenty of time in church.
Not an Each-Sunday-really-mum-do-we-have-to lot of time. No, this was a Not-even-Ned-Flanders-is-signing-up-for-this-crap lot of time.
“All I keep in mind goes to church. My mum would do 5 hours on a Saturday, six hours on a Sunday, 5 hours on a Wednesday, clear the church on a Thursday, then members’ conferences on a Friday… Actually, I used to be on the church 4 days every week, for 4 or 5 hours a time, typically much more.
“However the great thing about church, particularly while you go to these religious Baptist church buildings that my mum introduced us to, it’s simply the rhythms. All you’re listening to is beats, beats, rhythms, rhythms. And I’m sitting there tapping away, taking all of it in.”
It’s ironic then – or maybe it was inevitable – that when he first heard music from Labrinth, the prodigiously gifted artist he found in 2004, his firs response was, “It’s good, however a bit churchy”.
Williams first met the teenage author/performer/producer when he was educating a music enterprise course (having already had a number of UK hit singles and helped create a few genres – laborious home and jungle – by the way in which).
Certainly one of his pupils had taken the course in an effort to accrue the information and contacts to assist with the careers of her musical offspring – certainly one of whom was Timothy Lee McKenzie, quickly to be identified extra extensively as Labrinth.
“She wished me to fulfill her son, as a result of she thought I may assist out. She advised me he was obsessive about music, and it was true – his starvation was unimaginable.”
Williams grew to become a mentor and supervisor, kick-starting and guiding a profession that has encompassed No.1 data, a number of awards, important acclaim and, most not too long ago, success in TV and movie composing, together with an Emmy for his work on Euphoria.
Williams can be the founding father of OddChild Music – a administration, data and, as of this yr, distribution firm. He runs it out of The Chocolate Manufacturing unit in Wooden Inexperienced, the place he additionally owns seven studios.
In reality, he has not too long ago been reserving a while for himself as he returns to his recording profession. “Drum and bass is again in the meanwhile, so I’m again! I’m making beats once more. It’s time to make some hay whereas the solar’s shining on me for a little bit minute.”
Having multiple job is nothing new for Williams. He’s been doing it just about all his life – though not all the time pushed by ardour. “I used to wash places of work with my mum at 5 o’clock within the morning, then a paper spherical, then go to highschool, then a shift at a grocery store within the evenings.
“Once I left faculty, I labored in McDonald’s, I labored in Virgin Data (retail, not label), I labored in a leather-based belt manufacturing facility, I cleaned automobiles, I labored in an accountant’s workplace… all earlier than I used to be 18.
“My final job was as an apprentice carpenter. The corporate had been purported to ship me to do a Metropolis & Guilds qualification after a yr’s work, however they didn’t. So I stop and determined to only go for it. I needed to chase my goals and pursue music.
“We had a sound system in my household, so it was all the time written for me. Like I say, I attempted all the pieces else first, however then my cousin Mike, who handed away just a few years again, he was my driving pressure. He’s the man that simply mentioned, ‘You possibly can sleep on my ground, you’re high-quality, simply do your music mate; don’t do the rest.’ He gave me the spine to go for it.”
His first step was to hitch the household enterprise. “When my cousins ultimately let me contact the decks, for some cause, I may simply naturally combine. With out anybody displaying me, I may put two data collectively and blend them. As quickly as they noticed me try this, I grew to become the principle DJ for the sound system. Throughout the entire North London space, in the event you had been having a home celebration, we had been taking part in it, and I used to be the DJ.”
“Throughout North London, in the event you had been having a home celebration, we had been taking part in it.”
The assembly that modified Williams’ life – and had a reasonably large affect on the route of UK dance music – got here quickly after.
“I’m residing in a spare room in a shared home in Hornsey, actually sleeping on the ground, and I hear a faucet on the door. This tall white man sticks his head by means of the door, and he goes, ‘I hear you do music, I’m on the lookout for a author, are you able to write?’ I simply mentioned, ‘Sure, after all, let’s go’.
“This child, he was the identical age as me, his title was Caspar Pound, and I realized a lot from him. I’d by no means been in a studio in my life. And the factor is, this one had a Fairlight system in it, and so we began sampling all the pieces.
“You possibly can’t do now what we did then. You’d want 500% of the publishing to provide away! We had Roy Ayers, Afrika Bambaataa, Public Enemy, Billy Idol, James…
“We completed two tracks that first night time and certainly one of them was Complete Confusion, which ended up being one of many largest home tracks of all time. Carl Cox performed it (virtually) each set he did for 30 years, and was certainly one of his remaining 10 tracks performed on the closing of the legendary membership Area in Ibiza.
“That was the observe [released under the name A Homeboy, A Hippie & A Funki Dredd] that obtained me into the enterprise. And I thank Caspar Pound – RIP. He handed away of most cancers in 2005, however that serendipitous knock on the door, that was the universe knocking on my door saying, ‘Right here’s your ticket’.”
“That serendipitous knock on my door, that was the universe knocking.”
Quickly afterwards, Williams created one other cornerstone observe for one more rising style. “I’d accomplished this tune which sort of began the hardcore scene. However I had all of this church, reggae and soul stuff effervescent inside me.
“So one night time, when me and Caspar did a remix of A Second in Time by 4 For Cash, a correct home remix, there was two hours left, it was six or seven within the morning, and I put this bassline on it, a pure dub bassline. And that turned out to be the one which tore the golf equipment to items.
“I feel I used to be simply fortunate. You realize, 1990 was the beginning of the last decade of probably the most prolific style manufacturing period that the UK has ever had. And we began by serving to create two genres: hardcore home and jungle.”
It wasn’t, after all, simply luck, and, by way of Williams’ story, it wasn’t simply two data and even ‘simply’ two genres…
How a lot do you assume the music that you simply’ve created is a product of your atmosphere?
I’ve been in a rock band. I’ve been in a metallic band. I’ve accomplished dancehall. I’ve accomplished disco. The white aspect of residing within the UK versus the Jamaican aspect of residing within the UK – each of them run proper by means of me. That’s what I infuse into the artists that I labored with. I used to be attempting to provide them the broadest palette, all of my influences.
You’d must take heed to David Bowie, you’d must take heed to Nat King Cole, you’d must take heed to the Intercourse Pistols, you’d must take heed to Dennis Brown, you’d must take heed to James Brown: from the deepest funk to the deepest punk – ooh I like that, I’m gonna lock that one down! [Laughs]. I give the artists my historical past, I give them what I’m manufactured from.
Do you assume artists are much less adventurous and extra genre-specific now?
Like attracts like. I appeal to people who find themselves prepared to be influenced by a really broad vary of music.
You stroke the C-string on one guitar, the C-string on the guitar sitting subsequent to it vibrates. And I feel the vibration I give out comes again to me, as a result of I’m very fortunate to work with an eclectic bunch of artists who’ve a broad palette.
I’m fortunate to be surrounded by like-minded folks – and people who aren’t quickly find yourself leaving. As a result of we ask for a lot extra right here, musically, creatively; that’s what I consider in.
After these seminal tracks, the place did you go from there?
I wished a studio, and I obtained one, I went at it and I made it occur. After which I wished a High 20 report. I began a bunch, The Three Amigos, and we obtained a High 20 with Louie Louie [1999], after which we did 25 Miles with Edwin Starr.
I sampled 25 Miles and did a Huge Beat job on it, I did a little bit of a Fatboy Slim. After which Kiss FM wish to signal it they usually wished to shoot a video with Edwin. I’m like, okay, however first we’ve got to seek out him and clear the pattern – pondering he lives simply outdoors Vegas, someplace unique, proper? Seems he was residing simply outdoors Nottingham! And he was simply probably the most amiable, pretty, supportive character.
So I ended up doing The Three Amigos, I had a report label – Thumping Vinyl, I had the studio, I principally obtained all the pieces I requested for, however I used to be nonetheless broke.
It was so bizarre. I’d revamped 100 data, I’d accomplished High of the Pops, I’d accomplished The Phrase and Dance Vitality, I’d obtained all kinds of accolades from the dance business. For somebody who grew up broke within the Caledonian Street, it was means past what I ever thought I might do, however I used to be nonetheless broke.
While you look again at that interval, had been there any folks that you simply had been capable of flip to for recommendation and mentorship?
The younger youngsters I take care of now, they don’t understand how fortunate they’ve it. As a result of the dance music business was the Wild West once I obtained into it. I had no supervisor, no tour supervisor, no accountant, no lawyer; I used to be alone. Truly, for some time I had David Glick as my lawyer, and he has gone on to do wonderful issues, however that was when he was a younger pup.
I realized fairly rapidly, however solely by getting burned many instances. Like by spending my complete advance in report time; not realising that your advance is meant to final you. Then going again to ask for extra and them me throughout the desk, like, ‘What?!’ All of this stuff, if I had had a supervisor once I was 19, I might have realized. However no, I realized the laborious means.
The strongest early affect I had in music was Trenton Harris, who was my first supervisor. Trenton shared administration of me with Tony Gordon, who managed Boy George and Curiosity Killed The Cat, They managed me from 1991-1993.
Tony Gordon had a chauffeur-driven Silver Shadow Rolls-Royce. The spotlight of my life was to go to report corporations from his workplace.
I’ll always remember driving up Park Lane, and within the lane subsequent to me a convertible pulls up and it’s Chris Eubank. He does a double take, as a result of he sees this younger 19-year-old child sitting behind this Rolls-Royce, with two outdated white guys within the entrance.
So I wind the window down, I give him a spud and he appears at me with a lot admiration. However in spite of everything that, I needed to borrow a fiver from Tony once we obtained again to the workplace to get house.
However sure, Trenton was a really sturdy affect for me, and taught me so many classes.
I keep in mind turning down a drum and bass remix that Goldie was purported to do. By now Trenton’s managing Goldie. Me being the one of many originators of jungle, Goldie coming in later getting all of the honey. He’s flying, I’m stewing. I used to be one of many architects
Anyway, Trenton says, ‘Marc, I’ve obtained this tune. Goldie was purported to remix it however he doesn’t wish to do it – Would you like it?’
After all, I’m on my excessive horse: why am I getting his leftovers? I imply, I’m getting tense now. Additionally, I didn’t just like the tune. It was corny, very pop.
Trenton was like, ‘Are you certain? I’ll provide you with yet another probability…’ I simply stored saying no. I used to be salty; nah, I’m not doing it, no means.They launch the report, it was Child, Come Again, by Pato Banton with [Robin & Ali Campbell of] UB40, and it goes to No. 1 for 4 weeks.
Every single day, Trenton would name my home and say to me, ‘You realize what I’d be doing now, in the event you’d taken that remix, I’d be batting folks away, I’d be hanging up on report corporations, my answering machine can be rammed, I’d be turning down this and that…’
He had a means of educating you within the harshest means. However I realized that lesson: don’t let your ego get in the way in which of your choices.
On the finish of the Nineteen Nineties, into the 2000s, you’re truly doing library music, a totally totally different function. Was that from a way of restlessness?
I used to be truly exhausted, musically. I’d accomplished each style and I’d obtained to the place the place I’d sit within the studio and never know what to make, as a result of I truly didn’t know what I wished to make.
And at the moment a buddy of mine got here to me and mentioned that his neighbour owned a library firm. I didn’t know what a library firm was, however it turned out to be Excessive Music, which is the perfect library firm on the market.
On the time, they had been inflicting a large upset, as a result of library music beforehand had been very muzak, , elevate music and soundalikes, whereas they wished genuine sounds.
So once they got here to me, the very first thing they mentioned is ‘We’re doing this opera remix album, are you able to do a storage remix?’ I’m like, ship it over!
It principally saved me. At a time once I had sort of run out of juice, they got here in mentioned, ‘Look, now you may put all of that point you’ve had making music to make use of over right here’.
I ended up making extra money doing library than within the 10 years of placing data out. It saved my life. And it helped me construct the subsequent stage of my profession. It helped me fund the event of Labrinth.
So that is 2004, you’re educating a music manufacturing course, and also you come throughout this unimaginable expertise. Is it honest to say that modified your life?
Wanting again, it did; however on the time it didn’t. On the time, it was only a child I met that I used to be going to assist by giving some studio time.
I had a studio in Walthamstow and someday somebody knocks on the door, asks us what we do right here, how lengthy we’ve been right here and many others. Per week after that I get a cellphone name from the council saying I owe enterprise charges? What do you imply enterprise charges? What are enterprise charges?!
They mentioned I owed £17,000. I’m broke. I’ve obtained some gear, scratching away, signing on, however nonetheless within the studio each day.
I mentioned, ‘Can I make funds?’ ‘No, you must pay now’. However fortunately, this man mentioned to me, ‘If you happen to’re not there, they’ll’t get the cash’. The penny dropped and I put all the pieces I had in Huge Yellow Self Storage the subsequent day.
That night, it was a Friday, I used to DJ on a pirate radio station known as Unknown FM. I went all the way down to do my present and there’s a man DJ-ing earlier than I am going on, and he’s obtained a man with him taking part in saxophone. I actually prefer it, so I am going as much as him and begin speaking to him.
“I’d been within the enterprise for 12 years and I didn’t know the place my cash was.”
And that is the place I actually consider that in the event you keep targeted, keep assured, preserve your head down, preserve grafting, the universe will transfer stuff round for you. As a result of with out me telling this man about shifting my stuff into storage, he says to me, ‘It simply so occurs, on Monday, I’m going to this place in Wooden Inexperienced, it’s known as The Chocolate Manufacturing unit, and it’s a charity, so that you don’t must pay enterprise charges’.
That is the second time I’ve heard the phrases ‘enterprise charges’ in 24 hours! The primary time I owed £17K, the second time I don’t must pay a penny!
However what occurred was, the man who owned the house, he noticed me doing my factor, being energetic, and he requested me if I’d thought of educating a course on the music enterprise – earlier than simply checking, ‘I take it the music enterprise’?
I mentioned ‘Sure, after all I do know the music enterprise!’ I used to be mendacity by means of my enamel. I didn’t even know what enterprise charges had been two weeks in the past!
Plus, I’d been within the enterprise 12 years and I didn’t know the place my cash was. So, what was actually lovely about that was that I needed to cram the music business earlier than I may educate it. That proved so helpful and I started to see the place I’d gone incorrect!
Labrinth’s mum ended up coming into my class, and that was the subsequent chapter.
And if anybody ever vibrated again at you, it was Lab, proper?
The unusual factor with Lab is, once I met him, he knew nothing about what he known as secular music. He mentioned to me, ‘In my home, we don’t take heed to secular music, simply church music’. Okay…
However, to return, his mother walks into my class and I find yourself getting on along with her very well. She got here as much as me and mentioned, ‘You remind me of my brother, and I really like my brother. And I need you to fulfill my son, as a result of I feel you can actually assist him out. He doesn’t go to highschool. And when he’s at school he gained’t go into the playground; he’s simply hooked on music. That’s all he needs to do, all day each day, nothing else issues to him. I would like somebody to assist him out.’
She introduced down a cassette of a few of the music he was making. I performed it within the class, and it was good. It was a bit churchy, a bit swingy, some good chords.
All this time, I’m nonetheless constructing the studio. There’s tarpaulin on the ground, there’s naked wires hanging from the ceiling, there’s rubble in all places.
However Lab is so determined to get into the studio, I might actually, on the times once I was educating, inform him to come back down and I might lock him within the room. I don’t know what I used to be doing [Laughs]. It was Well being & Security insanity.
What I rapidly realized about him although, was that he cared about my room greater than I did. He’d depart it tidier than I left it.
He’d depart the gear in immaculate situation. And his starvation, he was identical to ‘Please, please, please, please let me in, please, I don’t wish to depart but’. He’d keep in a single day. Like I say, he was hungry.
However he didn’t have a mattress of music in any respect. It was very slender. It was church/hip-hop/soul; that was it. That was probably the most enjoyable factor for me, realizing that he was this sponge.
He had this behavior of regurgitating no matter he heard on his subsequent beat, however in a means that was totally different. One of many earliest issues I did with Lab was get him to do library music, as a result of I wished him to grasp the totally different types of manufacturing.
However he was not good at library, he was horrible. As a result of in library you’ve obtained to be good at emulating a sure style. And Lab is style defying, not style outlined.
I mentioned to him, ‘You’re not the man who makes library, you’re the man who units the tempo that library corporations will then copy. We’ll know that you simply’ve made it once we get a library temporary that has your music on it.’
And that occurred once we did [Tinie Tempah’s] Cross Out. We obtained a quick that mentioned, ‘We would like songs that sound like Cross Out’. I ran straight into the studio and we laughed: ‘There you go, mate, that’s what we had been grafting for’.
However yeah, the early years, from 15 to 18, was all learning. My massive rule for him was: you must study to play the instrument correctly. Having only a rudimental information of keys and chords is what held me again. If I’d had a deeper information and will talk about issues correctly, in musical phrases, I’d have accomplished lots higher.
I advised him you’ll want to study what you’re taking part in, so to converse musically, as a result of in the event you try this you then’ll have a job for all times. I feel that’s been the largest a part of the success story for Lab: earlier than he broke out, he studied his instrument correctly, and he studied manufacturing correctly.
I known as it the 360 approach. He jogged my memory of this the opposite day. I’d utterly forgotten, however he mentioned, ‘You taught me that you’ll want to study the entire thing.’
You possibly can’t simply play the keys; you wish to study all the pieces, all facets, so to speak on the highest ranges with folks. And now he’s working in Hollywood, doing movie scores and all kinds.
You’ve all the time stayed on the surface of the enterprise, however has there ever been a need so that you can sit inside these partitions, be part of the institution?
I like being impartial. However, to blow my very own trumpet, I do assume I’ve nice style. I wouldn’t have been within the sport for this lengthy if I didn’t. I wouldn’t have discovered Labrinth, Ashnikko and Avelino if I didn’t have good style.
However I might love the chance to assist steer a significant of their inventive decisions, as a result of there’s simply nothing coming down the pipe. They’re not nurturing, and that’s what we do: we nurture, we develop from the bottom.
If a significant was courageous sufficient to have a division only for nurturing, on the lookout for new expertise and creating, after which in the event that they graduate… that might be supreme for me, being like a feeder to them.
However I’m joyful to be outdoors. I’ve all the time been a loner. I’ve by no means even actually had a accomplice, I’ve simply gone it alone.
What are the laborious classes that you simply realized alongside the way in which that you simply’d want you’d identified again at the beginning?
I all the time say to all my artists now: dream intimately, dream in color and assume holistically. As a result of like I mentioned, I obtained all the pieces I requested for, however I used to be broke. As a result of what I by no means requested for was cash, what I by no means requested for was to take care of my household. It was all music-driven. And all of these needs had been fulfilled, however I used to be nonetheless broke.
And what I did was change it to, ‘I need to have the ability to feed my household, I need to have the ability to present a retirement for myself. I should get that from the music that I’ve made, and what I’ve delivered to this enterprise’.
“I say to all my artists: dream intimately, dream in color and assume holistically.”
I principally began saying, I must receives a commission for what I do now. I obtained into an entire new mind-set, and never having a poverty mindset.
In order that’s the factor I educate my youngsters: to manifest, to dream-weave, to actually give attention to the objective. More often than not you’re off-track. Ninety p.c of the time, you’re not going within the route you wish to go in, however one hundred pc of the time you must preserve your vacation spot in your thoughts’s eye.
A aircraft that goes from London to New York isn’t heading in the right direction, it’s consistently off track, however it repeatedly auto-corrects and it’s solely by these corrections that it will get to its vacation spot. You actually get there by a sequence of errors. In order that’s what I educate my guys – don’t concern making errors.
What are you thus far?
I’m nonetheless at The Chocolate Manufacturing unit in Wooden Inexperienced, I’ve been right here for arising 20 years now. Within the time since me and Lab broke up, which was 2015, I’ve been working with Avelino (pictured, inset. We simply obtained a No.1 impartial album, No.12 within the official album chart.
I developed a younger artist named Ashnikko, I developed Raf Riley, Moon Willis and soul queen Etta Bond. I’ve obtained seven studios now, all bustling with producers and writers. That’s the place I’m at.
Plus, drum and bass is again in the meanwhile, so I’m again! I’ve been within the studio for the final couple of months making beats once more. Drum and bass comes again each 10 years, so now it’s time for me to make some hay whereas the solar’s shining on me for a little bit minute.
We’re nearly to start out OddChild Distro, our personal little distribution firm, we’re doing a little NFT runs. We’re going to be pushing the OddChild model an entire lot extra over the subsequent couple of years.
What ambitions do you could have left?
I’ve had the BRIT, I’ve had the MOBO, I’ve had the Ivor Novello. I’d love a Mercury, however the Grammy is the factor that will get me up within the morning now. That’s the main focus that can preserve me shifting in the proper route. I need that Grammy. I see myself on that pink carpet. I see myself within the viewers with some artist amassing their Grammy and saying, ‘Thanks, Marc’. All the time grateful, by no means glad; that’s my rule.
This interview is taken from a superb podcast sequence, Did Ya Know?, which tells the customarily unheard tales of key figures within the British music business, focusing initially on pioneering executives of color. The crew behind the pod consists of Stellar Songs co-founder Danny D and Decisive Administration co-founder Adrian Sykes. Music Enterprise Worldwide is proud to be companions and supporters of Did Ya Know? You possibly can take heed to it wherever you discover your favorite podcasts.
